Mr. Nice Forums  
Home History Strains Media Web Community Medical Marijuana Contact us Auctions

Go Back   MNS Forums > MNS Forums > 4. Talk to Shantibaba and MrNice

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2010, 09:37 PM
joshuahazen's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,546
Default The Bonsai Sultan Method: Typological Breeding for the Non Breeder, Beginner, or Pro with Little Space.

Dear Nevil, Howard, and Shanti,
I have decided to disclose my method of breeding in all of its simplicity, for the sake of this website and its cause, which I believe to be, above all else, for the benefit of improving and preserving the plant itself. I posted in this section of the forum because, above and beyond simple breeder support, this thread is also a plea and a guide to those who grow but don't breed.
I will be introducing this method in several chapters which I will be completing over the next week or so. I will try to release 2 chapters per day.

Special Thanks to all of you and my new found friends at MNS, I have written this for everyone, so please, enjoy.
Joshua Hazen.

Note: I am introducing this article here for the first time. As always you should check the laws of your area, so you can design a program that is in compliance with those laws.

Chapter 1

Why Breed? The Ganja plant is an amazing organism. I believe she has her own sentience, and like all plants, she has a very simple charter, with but a single mandate: Be Fruitful and Multiply. She has given you so much, why donít you give her something, the only thing she truly desires, the only thing she really wants: to reproduce sexually. If not for her alone, then do it for yourself as well, not only will it help you increase the yield and quality of your setup over time, but more importantly, it will give you a level of independence and control that you simply cannot get any other way. You will become an island. Now if things go to hell in a handbasket, or even if your favorite strain gets discontinued, your personal strains will be safe with you.

The idea behind this method is to be able to breed selectively using a large sample within a very small space.* In fact the Bonsai Sultan method only requires around four square feet of floorspace in a corner preferably,* going up to the ceiling, and can accommodate close to a thousand plants.* Initially, though most likely, one would not start with that many, so one would only need two 4 ft shoplight double fixture flourescents to start with.* It can be set up for around $100. The Bonsai Sultan Method is primarily for people who want to preserve and improve the strains that they are working with, and it allows one to breed using a male plant without endangering the cultivators main All Female seedless harvest.
It is about proper timing, and the fact that the male plant, like all the plants that will be pollinated, is a bonsai, and very small.* Effectively, it allows virtually any setup to become a scientifically based, quickly evolving horticulture, simply and cheaply, utilizing parts which can be gotten from any hardware store, and with comparatively little effort.* By utilizing the simple principals of selective breeding it is possible to improve one's yield considerably by custom breeding, finding and selecting that super clone, out of a sample of hundreds, in the case of the 4 square foot model.

Goals are very important. Every breeder should have a goal or a set of goals, when breeding, and these goals become the hypothesis.
More on this later for now lets get started on the more practical aspects of growing using the Bonsai Sultan Method.


First of all lets go over the things you will need for beginning the bonsai sultan method. It is a short list.

1) 2 four foot double fixture fluorescent lights.
2) Notebook and pencil
3) masking tape, thread and ball point pen.
4) Power strip and extension cord(s)
5) 2 four foot 2inch X 14 inch shelves
6) Heavy duty black plastic sheeting
7) 2 timers
8) Mylar
9) 288 2 inch containers
10) 128 3 inch containers
11) 72 4 inch containers
12) Good dirt.
13) Good fertilizer for vegetative and separate fertilizer for flowering.

It is very simple. You will build 2 shelves, the first shelf 2 feet above the floor and the second 1 and a half feet above that. And you will hang one shop light from each one by chains, so it can be raised and lowered. Then you will drape the whole thing in black plastic with a staple gun, on the outside and the Mylar underneath it.
That is it, now you have two bonsai breeding chambers, one 2 ft tall on the floor and the other 1 Ĺ ft tall right above it. If you ever want to expand it, just add another shelf on top.

Alternatively you can build 2 foot by four foot shelves with 2 shop fluorescents on each shelf if you feel you need more space.

Generally, when one is selectively breeding for typology, in other words, choosing the best plant for intended use, from a given sample, the larger the sample is, the better.

I will be posting the next chapter, later this evening.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2010, 10:56 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 177
Thumbs up

Keep it coming Mr Hazen good read so far
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2010, 11:05 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1

I am looking forward to this. Bonsai eh, sounds really good. Never have bred, and in fact have a serious aversion to pollen, but...... Id love a small bonsai breeding project. I have such ideas! You have my attn.

Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2010, 11:14 PM
matthewriot's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 533

Yeah for sure, some people wonder how I keep so many plants in small areas when I need to - the setup is very similar to this. This should be an excellent resource for those with little space but lots of knowledge!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 12:55 AM
joshuahazen's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,546

Thanks for the encouragement guys-- Here is the next installment.

Chapter 2

Breeding philosophy:* The philosophy behind the method is simple.* To use an anachronism from the military:* Keep it KISS simple: Keep It Simple Stupid.

* Another military saying:* Assumption is the mother of All Fuck ups.*

Don't get caught up in irrelevant details, why are you worried if the leaves are fat or skinny, are you going to smoke the leaves? and if you are going to smoke them why would it matter if they are skinny or fat? Beginning growers often make this mistake; they want fat leaves because they like indica, or they want thin leaves because they like sativa. Well if you are growing a hybrid, you might have to choose between 2 plants, from the same seedstock, one might have thin leaves and one might have fat leaves. Which one are you going to choose? A beginner might choose the one with fat leaves and eliminate the one with thin leaves, when unfortunately in this particular instance, it was the very plant with the thin leaves that had the short budding cycle and dripping buds he was looking for, or vise versa. He made an assumption, that because it had fat leaves somehow it was moreĒindicaĒ than its sister, and in this case it was a wrong assumption, and he lost the very plant that he had been looking for. Assume nothing, and only make a judgment call when you have to.

Selection is the single most important factor in any breeding program. In the Bonsai Sultan method, we keep it KISS simple. We only have 4 major things that we select for. In order of importance they are:


2) Over all vigor and structure,

3)Yield of dried harvest

4)length of budding cycle


This is the single most important factor of any breeding program. There is only one real reason we grow this plant: That is for the effect it gives us when we smoke/consume it. Lets not put the horse before the cart. It doesnít matter how heavy it is, how dense it is, how much it stinks, if it doesnít get you high its worthless. Every person has their own unique idea of what the ideal bud should smoke like, so as breeders we are all going to have at least slightly different ideals regarding what exactly constitutes the perfect high. As a breeder your first and foremost goal should be getting as close to this personal ideal as you possibly can. Of course flavor and aroma fit into this catagory as well, but are lesser components.

2)Overall Vigor and Structure

Vigor refers to the general health of the plant, its ability to grow fast, resist disease, etc. This is very important. Again it doesnít matter how stony or heavy yielding the plant is, if it canít resist disease and it grows like crap, even if it is the stoniest shit on the planet, you will be lucky to get any bud out of it at all, and as a grower you donít want to be dealing with a weak and sickly plant. You want a plant that grows like a champion, laughs at spider mites and practically grows by itself. This makes your job much easier. Structure refers to the shape of the plant, and what kind of structure you want depends on your growing setup, but as growers we all have ideals about what the perfect structure is. My advice is, keep an open mind and donít be too judgmental. Look at the plants that yield the highest in your garden, what is their structure?
Generally the ideal structure in my opinion, are stout plants with thick strong and dominant stems, that have tight inter-nodular lengths, but not too tight, those giant buds need a little space. The plants that have secondary and tertiary shoots which grow and bud prolifically are also a great advantage in most gardens. If the plant has the vigor, and the highest yield per square foot in your garden, then it has the structure you are looking for. Structure is primarily a function that is desirous to yield.

3) Yield of dried Buds per square foot

This one is a no brainier. But just remember, the heaviest plant is not necessarily the heaviest plant per square foot, and again keep an open mind regarding structure, because you may find yourself pleasantly surprised by a plant whoís structure did not fit your preconceived ideal. The structure that yields highest in one garden may not be the best for a different garden, and that is why it helps to custom breed the perfect plant for your own unique brand of horticulture.

4)Length of budding cycle

Again this is a no brainer, but just remember that shorter is not always better, it varies from strain to strain, but there is a length of budding which is ideal for yield versus the time it takes to mature. I have had plants with budding cycles ranging from 25 days all the way up to 140 days within my strains. The plant that was ready within 25 days was totally mature and it was very fine bud, 50% NL5XHaze, unfortunately a 5 foot plant only yielded 18 grams. I was however , able to use this particular plant as a parent to breed many very short budding and highly potent and desirable high yielding specimens, which I have crossed with promising haze throwbacks that have had too long of a budding cycle to be practical. I don't think anyone would argue that length of budding cycle is not important, and generally, most of us are on the lookout for a shorter cycle as apposed to a longer one, within reason, but in our program we have to be careful not to sacrifice potency and yield in the name of a shorter budding cycle.

This is all there is to it. It is quite simple really, if you stay focused, and don't get caught up in irrelevant details you will be able to select superior plants from your sample, and this is the single most important thing you can do for your breeding program.

The next installment is coming soon.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 03:38 AM
joshuahazen's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,546

Chapter 3

The key to breeding with the scientific method, is reserving judgment, observing and recording data, and utilizing a control group. In the Bonsai Sultan Method, the main Seedless Harvest becomes the control group, more on this in later chapters.

After you have been breeding your strain for a few years you may come to notice certain markers, but donít put too much faith in these markers. Always record everything. And be sure to label. In the Bonsai Sultan Method, we label with masking tape. Each container is double labeled(2 pieces of tape with same label per container). When the plants are large enough, you can label them again at the first branch. By using a piece of thread and some masking tape. Just drape the thread around the branch and fix it with the tape. You can write on the tape when it is still on the roll, and make sure to use a standard Bic ball point pen. Labeling is one of the simplest yet most important parts of any breeding program.

It is important to isolate variables and keep all variables constant, so that you can make sure that all your plants have the same environment, that way you can isolate the genetic factor.

For example: if you are growing 2 plants in different soil, and one does better than the other, it becomes very difficult to say that one plant is better than the other because of genetics. Maybe one soil is better than the other, and that is why the plant appears so much better. So it is very important to make sure that all plants are treated exactly the same. Same soil, same fertilizer, same type of light, etc.

Generally you want to use as much of the same materials for your Bonsai growing as you do for your setup, this is so that you know the plants that perform well under the bonsai method you are going to be ultimately using in your main garden, so you want to select plants that will do well under those conditions. Of course you canít keep all the variables the same. This is easier if you grow in dirt.
Don't worry if you use a hydroponic system, you will still want to use dirt to start with for your bonsai breeding even if you have a hydroponic system. The secondary and final selection process will insure that your strains are tested in whatever final medium you use, for your main setup, and the rare specimen that has trouble with hydroponics can be eliminated at this time, if you are using a hydroponic setup.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 03:44 AM
OzzyDioDude's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: In the woods
Posts: 40

Thank you very much for sharing your ways with us.
It's a crazy world we live in but it's cool
Rose are Red Voilet areBlue If you believe me it might be True
RIP Pops the Dirty Dozen crew
Devil's Advocate
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 05:44 AM
Nygee624's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Here and Now
Posts: 130
Default Good Medicine.

Thanks for the info just in time ,just sent out for some of Shanti's beans ,cant wait to go wading in the genetic pool.
My education is the only thing that has hindered my learning....A Einstien
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 03:57 PM
joshuahazen's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,546

Chapter 4

Now for starters, you will probably have just a few seeds plus whatever mother clones you may have. This is great. In the Bonsai sultan method, hermaphrodites are avoided like the plague, and destroyed whenever they show themselves. This means you will need to find a natural male for your clone mothers. What kind of strain do you want for your male? Well that depends on what you are trying to do. The odds are if you have a particular clone mother that you favor over all your others than you will want to use that as your primary mother, but if you have more than one mother you will want to use all of them. It is called the Sultan method because you will only be using one male to pollinate all of your females, per cycle. This is one of the primary features of the bonsai sultan method. Of course on the next cycle the odds are you will use a different male but it will be just a single male. You will select the best male out of many. I will explain the method you will use for selecting males later. Occasionally you will find yourself in a situation where you are having trouble deciding which male you want to use because they are both so great. In this situation you can use both, provided they came from the same packet of seeds. Generally, you will choose your male based on its genetics prior to selecting, so you will only be keeping and selecting males, from the already decided cross. You may use as many as the top 3 males, of the same batch of seeds. But usually one male will stand out heads above the rest, so usually you will just use one male. Just to be clear, even though on some occasions you may use more than one male, on those occasions the males will ALWAYS be from the exact same seedstock, IE the seeds will come from the same female. You will NEVER use more than one type of seedstock per cycle of breeding for males, NEVER. This is the like the 1st commandment of the bonsai sultan method, and it is the pillar on which the method is founded. Generally you will have just one or two crosses per cycle which you will be focusing on even though you may be growing as little as just a couple plants or as many as thousands.

Last edited by joshuahazen; 12-04-2010 at 04:10 PM. Reason: grammer
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 10:48 PM
joshuahazen's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,546

Chapter 5

If you are selecting a strain to use as a male you will want something that compliments your female, in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. I will site the following fictitious story as an example to help you better understand what I am talking about.

Joe Grow, is using the bonsai sultan method to improve and preserve his stock. Joe has 2 mother strains, one that he uses for production, and the other he uses for his personal smoke.

For example, he originally became interested in breeding because he wanted to preserve his 2 clone strains, primarily one, which he had gotten from Neville’s Seedbank, a strain which you might be familiar with: The Haze. he had noticed that it was experiencing some minor genetic drift, which hadn’t affected potency or yield, but it had worried him none the less. Also he had gotten some seed out of some crazy Humboldt county bud purchased directly from the grower in mid September, only 3 little white seeds from a whole . This “ounce” was a small round nugget broken off of the largest bud he had ever seen, and this “small” nugget actually weighed almost 40 grams, and the single bud it came off of must have weighed well over a pound. Well 2 of these little seeds had sprouted and they were both male. He had been toying with the idea of making seed, and this seemed like the perfect opportunity.
he crossed the best male into his two clone samples, The haze and his other strain, which was the best female for production, selected out of hundreds of plants from all sources, for its extremely high yielding indoor capacity. It came from an unknown source, a miscellaneous bag of the kill, but it outperformed all else for yield, with Giant buds and easily made the grade. He named it simply: The Giant. It had a 70 day budding cycle
The Giant was his main production strain, wildly outperforming all else he had, and debilitatingly stony with a creeping high, that took at least ten minutes to hit you.
He then grew seeds of the Humboldt Haze hybrids, and crossed it into the original haze, the original Giant, and a female of the Humboldt Giant. He kept the best clone for personal smoke, it was the best thing he had ever smoked outside the original Haze. Satisfied with these seed crosses, He promptly put them on the shelf and forgot about them for several years. He had accomplished this first goal of preserving his carefully collected and tested strains.

Then a disaster forced him to shut down and he lost all of his clones, that had been the culmination of many years of collecting and testing. The thing that crushed him, was losing that original Haze clone. You can bet he remembered those seeds pretty quickly. When after things cooled down, he decided to take it back up again, he had a new goal.
His Goal was simple, KISS simple, he wanted a plant that tasted and smoked like haze, but had the structure of the giant, with the early budding and other dynamite features of the Humboldt.
Joe's own personal quest had started, and the gratification of seeking and finding that perfect strain became an obsession, with rewards that He had not even contemplated.

Lets start with those first two Bonsai seedharvests that Joe grew before his big calamity.
The production plant gives very heavy plants and looks like an indica, but is in fact a indica/sativa hybrid. It expresses itself as a giant indica. This plant he labels G(for Giant) for ease of recording. G is an extremely high yielder that came out of bag seed. In fact it is far and away the highest yielder Joe has ever seen, which actually says a lot. It has very stony bud, with a typical indica creeper high, it is devastating and lethargic, it also has immense bag appeal. It has a 70 day budding cycle. Joe’s other plant is a Holland Seedbank original, the NL5Xhaze. This plant he labels H. For those few who aren’t familiar, H is also an indica sativa hybrid, however it expresses itself primarily as a sativa. It is also quite high yielding, however it has a 100 day budding cycle. It has the greatest high Joe has ever experienced. The high lasts 6 hours, and can be smoked several times a day without building up a tolerance, the high is overwhelmingly trippy and hallucinogenic. To make a long story short, it is the bomb. Joe grows a single clone under fluorescents, and keeps it for his own stash because frankly, now that Joe has tried it, nothing else will suffice. Even though he smokes it with his friends few acknowledge it, everyone wants the G. Joe doesn’t really understand this, maybe they are scared. So he just grows it under a couple of shoplight fluorescents in a small box, and gets a few zee's per cycle, enough for him and his friends, cause Joe prefers bong hits.
Joe has a couple of goals. He would love to cross his G with his H, but all he has is clones, and they are female. So what is he to do? Well he needs a bridge. He wants to shorten the budding cycle of both plants, so he needs a fast budding plant. He wants something that is very stony. He does several crosses over a period of years but only one comes out solid and stable. This is a variety from a small Mountain Town called Paonia, and people call this stuff Paonia Kind Bud, so he labels it PK. The buds have bright red hairs are covered in crystals and have a delicate but powerfully sweet and fruity aroma. The high is amazing. The plants express themselves as short indicas, but due to the flavor and character of the buds, Joe suspects that there is some sativa hiding somewhere in this strain, possibly Hawaiian, or Colombian. Whatever the case it is some of the finest connoisseur bud Joe has ever smoked. Joe had crossed this with the haze, several years ago, and is thinking of using this strain, he has around 40 seeds of it. But then he scores some weed from a dude up in Humboldt county. Which changes everything

In the end he decides to use the Humboldt county strain, because it is some of the very stoniest, most potent and clearheaded shit he has ever smoked, and the fact that it was an outdoor and he had purchased it in mid September, stem crackin dry and nicely cured. He crosses this male into both the G and the H. But wait there is a problem, this stuff is called Humboldt, it also starts with an H, so now, The H becomes the HZ and the Humboldt becomes the HU, problem solved. So for the first cross he does, he has one male HU and he crosses into 2 females. HZ and G.
So now he has 2 new strains. Joe always makes sure that the male is named first when he labels his seeds. For example he now labels his 2 strains.
HU/HZ and HU/G . For his second seed crop he now has more strains, he of course uses a HU/HZ male and crosses it with everything he has, but for some idiotic reason, he doesn’t pop any of his PK/HZ s, oh well he is new at this and it just doesn’t occur to him.
So now out of his second seed crop, he chooses a male HU/HZ and crosses it with HZ , G, HU/HZ , HU/G

So now he has the following strains from seed:

First cross:
HU/HZ and HU/G

and from seed

He is primarily interested in the first 2 crosses, HZ/HU//HZ this is ĺ HZ(NL5XHAZE) in case you didn’t notice. Of course in addition to recording this on the seed packs he is also recording it in his notebook.

Now he has a starting point. He has something that is 75%Haze(NL5XHaze) and 25% Humboldt County, and he also has something that is 25% Haze and 25% Humboldt County, and 50% Giant Indica.

Last edited by joshuahazen; 12-05-2010 at 04:09 AM.
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
All rights reserved, MR NICE SEEDBANK, NL